https://inter-punct.pub inter·punct Thu, 14 Mar 2024 19:58:22 +0000 https://inter-punct.pub en https://inter-punct.pub/Navigation Sat, 22 Sep 2018 20:23:11 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/Navigation <img width="150" height="150" width_o="150" height_o="150" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/9eaff4b926c90b468a3fb84a04faf96214a8b386868c30711601c849d6b7a3c6/interpunct.svg" data-mid="120597003" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/150/i/9eaff4b926c90b468a3fb84a04faf96214a8b386868c30711601c849d6b7a3c6/interpunct.svg" /> inter • punct&nbsp; &nbsp; interactionINTENTION interregnum DEMOLITIONRECONSTRUCTION interro bang !+? now is the time to panic! we only dream the night before tomorrowjust listen. conversations Vivian LoftnessWAI Think TankRebecca GatesOlalekan JeyifousJorge Otero-PaliosTommy YangYasmeen Lari Keisuke Toyoda Mark Stanley Aaron BetskyPhil FreelonAnnabelle SelldorfRonald RietveldBrad Samuels and Jay Aronson inter • mission infrastructure exhibitions imageidentity inundateimpeachpostboxthesis...?divideinfluencepost-novis newsletter one two three four experiments “it’s here” partyArchitectures for AdvertisementBlack Box Confessionalcmu.png inter • view — 2016 Maria Aiolova Alex Maymind Hugh Broughton Winy Maas Harry Gugger Sou Fujimoto Bernard Tschumi Wiel Arets José Oubrerie Mark PasnikNeil DenariEva Franch i GilabertJesse Reiser + Nanako UmemotoChristina CiardulloVishaan Chakrabarti para • meter — 2014 David Eskenazi Natale Cozzolongo Matt Fineout Charles Rosenblum Aviva Rubin Michael Jeffers Jonah Rowen Zachary Cohen Gabriel Cuèllar + Jared Langevin Dan BurdzySpike WolffGordon GillDora Epstein JonesGaston NoguesCraig Dykers *quarantine blog* instagram bookshelf info https://inter-punct.pub/INTENTION Thu, 14 Mar 2024 19:58:22 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/INTENTION INTENTION - FALL 2023 <img width="2400" height="2400" width_o="2400" height_o="2400" 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2020 19:46:30 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/quarantine-blog This page will serve as a time capsule and repository of thoughts, reflections, and reminicences regarding the 2020 COVOID-19 Pandemic. If you are interested in contributing shoot us a message at interpunct.arch@gmail.com.&nbsp; [4/29/20] CE I have found that there’s a peculiar and profound shift in mental state associated with different kind of exposure with this pandemic. My personal experience has shifted from being inevitably in public, to isolation for self-protection, to isolation for the protection of others. And with the transition through those stages comes a transition through different flavors of anxiety… Obviously when travelling in these times you have to be wary and alert of your surroundings and the constant on-edge feeling is just exceedingly taxing. Usually when I travel I just numb myself to my surroundings and let the infrastructure carry me wherever I need to go, I trust the system and there’s only so much you can do to make any difference – and most of that is just personal comfort. It’s so stressful to constantly be worried about what you’re touching and who you’re close to, and is a really uncomfortable new lens with which to see the world. Upon return I wanted a break from all that, and be in a place where I didn’t have to worry about touching infected surfaces or being coughed on by someone with a mask etc and sat down to wait for a few days. I was worried more than about myself about my friends and loved ones – nervous about how they were faring, and just focusing and dealing with the anxiety that comes with trying to protect oneself. A few days later finding out that I had been in contact with someone who was confirmed as infected poses another set of existential dreads – instead of waiting it out to stay safe I was sitting around in my room waiting to get sick. Two weeks of hoping that I don’t start to get a fever and knowing how utterly powerless I was either way in this respect were quite taxing to say the least. Thankfully it seems like I’m in the clear, but the whole situation makes you wonder if the real danger is the virous, or all of the associated detriments to mental health and lifestyle. Probably both – we shouldn’t downplay either. [4/28/20] CE <img width="1962" height="1013" width_o="1962" height_o="1013" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/263ff9b7cb5636ec7ab121d03a466c8b3b13bba5d5d3fb56c9578bf6745ed13a/makeartnotfriends.PNG" data-mid="64892885" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/263ff9b7cb5636ec7ab121d03a466c8b3b13bba5d5d3fb56c9578bf6745ed13a/makeartnotfriends.PNG" /><img width="1828" height="1005" width_o="1828" height_o="1005" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/cd663dd64257283a7cc6073275bdc9f1ece0fa9093de0b792a171a1460fc7416/staysafekids.PNG" data-mid="64892884" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/cd663dd64257283a7cc6073275bdc9f1ece0fa9093de0b792a171a1460fc7416/staysafekids.PNG" /> [4/21/20] CEThis post marks the start of our quarantine blog. Various members of the editorial team will be contributing thoughts and reflections on an unprecedented world situation.&nbsp; https://inter-punct.pub/Birthday Thu, 18 Mar 2021 22:14:41 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/Birthday As far as we can tell, 2021 is the 10th year of interpunct - seems like cause for celebration, right? The group has changed a lot over the years, but join us as we commemorate all iterations of inter-punks past and present this semester! We've got a special slate of events and releases planned for the coming months - so mark your calendars now and stay tuned for updates! Welcome to virtual inter·course: the birthday special. Indulge in our selection of anonymized op-eds about -- and not about -- architecture. Packing flavor and a lasting aftertaste, seven readings have been carefully curated to create a truly i·punk meal befitting the celebration of 10+ years of an eclectic inter·punct. Hosted by punks emeritus! Join us on Wednesday, March 31 at 7:30PM EST for a review and author reveal! Zoom Link: https://cmu.zoom.us/j/98664367618?pwd=TDJENGpQb0s3eE5EUlV4ZlFrRS9OZz09&nbsp; Readings Link:&nbsp;https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1OytyUJFco-K029Hcw7tJ4-D-8hDmONrw?usp=sharing We would ask that you familiarize yourself with the attached readings and pour yourself a drink before jumping on the call with us! Looking forward to seeing you there. Would it really be inter·punct if we were on time with anything? Similarly, what would interpunct be without unexpected surprises? Starting our 10th year off on a supremely characteristic foot, we’re releasing the first interview in our special series late - but not alone! Please enjoy these two pieces from the archives, and stay tuned for the next few coming later this semester.&nbsp; Ronald Rietveld Brad Samuels and Jay Aronson <img width="2000" height="2000" width_o="2000" height_o="2000" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/156250d5fb8f42e41dc6958216ea46add34a55d2d3e440055e5ec4234d2ed5f6/10yr_promo_2.jpg" data-mid="102517042" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/156250d5fb8f42e41dc6958216ea46add34a55d2d3e440055e5ec4234d2ed5f6/10yr_promo_2.jpg" /> https://inter-punct.pub/bookshelf Tue, 02 Mar 2021 22:43:30 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/bookshelf As we have left behind our studio environments, we slowly forget the informal setting in which we learned best. We learned mostly through physically observing and reacting to the shifting field of knowledge around us. Through the simple act of glimpsing at someone’s desk we might learn about their personality, their interests, and maybe borrow an idea or two. Trading of these ideologies developed our collective design sensibility… So today we asked ourselves, what are you reading? <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/d230eea8f4b99bad119b8dc0657457b8cb51574355a5cec2cab6cbf34411a7f9/bookshelf.jpg" data-mid="102490292" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/d230eea8f4b99bad119b8dc0657457b8cb51574355a5cec2cab6cbf34411a7f9/bookshelf.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/f05d2c76616549c28b581241867a6c2bc8d4005a5161e4c46a8ef3c6f4832e84/bookshelf6.jpg" data-mid="102490345" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/f05d2c76616549c28b581241867a6c2bc8d4005a5161e4c46a8ef3c6f4832e84/bookshelf6.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/a4aa81e0abaec9e3c5cae1cf32c04b13632bb85571cac0bfc6e62a4a46e4080e/bookshelf8.jpg" data-mid="102490347" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/a4aa81e0abaec9e3c5cae1cf32c04b13632bb85571cac0bfc6e62a4a46e4080e/bookshelf8.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/75ef02c6f09ccb9ba612eb934d352fbca687ef100981368deb79ae524aff3e61/bookshelf18.jpg" data-mid="102490357" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/75ef02c6f09ccb9ba612eb934d352fbca687ef100981368deb79ae524aff3e61/bookshelf18.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/fea01c301565c41a328b9cedb16decb0c88357b2e3a767782ac8417cf27b6877/bookshelf12.jpg" data-mid="102490351" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/fea01c301565c41a328b9cedb16decb0c88357b2e3a767782ac8417cf27b6877/bookshelf12.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/8d37e1b6b3b9adf71e5f9ef15ffae53b8b6aad441aa06d1d27321fd73dc9b263/bookshelf13.jpg" data-mid="102490352" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/8d37e1b6b3b9adf71e5f9ef15ffae53b8b6aad441aa06d1d27321fd73dc9b263/bookshelf13.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/64438d34bf7eed0e632588abddedbef6d72d4f8986f0fc119ac92e63d56fd980/bookshelf9.jpg" data-mid="102490348" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/64438d34bf7eed0e632588abddedbef6d72d4f8986f0fc119ac92e63d56fd980/bookshelf9.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/f56e9e54f2d56cb8c3a5dd72678d0b9d8ee4da5cfc4ce419b930a2153341cd6a/bookshelf3.jpg" data-mid="102490341" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/f56e9e54f2d56cb8c3a5dd72678d0b9d8ee4da5cfc4ce419b930a2153341cd6a/bookshelf3.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/f53ccadbb0e96c8a8bca16dd39a6f5a2efd9c52787ba7245b0053661f0780441/bookshelf17.jpg" data-mid="102490356" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/f53ccadbb0e96c8a8bca16dd39a6f5a2efd9c52787ba7245b0053661f0780441/bookshelf17.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/107fb9599fd567f03ad9a4fb232ab3e4a4fc8a16cd6c9aa2f7d85878c86e4426/bookshelf10.jpg" data-mid="102490349" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/107fb9599fd567f03ad9a4fb232ab3e4a4fc8a16cd6c9aa2f7d85878c86e4426/bookshelf10.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/3ec42dcee2b40d34150f98b936ffabc7e069c8cd3df6c22f59bd8d8b988757eb/bookshelf5.jpg" data-mid="102490344" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/3ec42dcee2b40d34150f98b936ffabc7e069c8cd3df6c22f59bd8d8b988757eb/bookshelf5.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/e30c1d33c25da120e1d6d1c93a58be7a6dff5a04db7d33e445c701be3a4c1316/bookshelf11.jpg" data-mid="102490350" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/e30c1d33c25da120e1d6d1c93a58be7a6dff5a04db7d33e445c701be3a4c1316/bookshelf11.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/199c7ad1cb7bde76e80c1d14a942f46d4cf4528672934b1b94153b5806d2c6ff/bookshelf2.jpg" data-mid="102490340" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/199c7ad1cb7bde76e80c1d14a942f46d4cf4528672934b1b94153b5806d2c6ff/bookshelf2.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/3be7501269da156e2e8e3dbeb9bd938ee684df51235cd6de02d0c31003cd733b/bookshelf4.jpg" data-mid="102490342" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/3be7501269da156e2e8e3dbeb9bd938ee684df51235cd6de02d0c31003cd733b/bookshelf4.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/87262ff24964808aaf6bc47bbcd9fcac8a0e20bcb505c32c7c23e91830cc5d6e/bookshelf14.jpg" data-mid="102490353" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/87262ff24964808aaf6bc47bbcd9fcac8a0e20bcb505c32c7c23e91830cc5d6e/bookshelf14.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/31735b1b624a1fb775226f67abeedb7277ab6f3ace0836d2e43ce292febf2990/bookshelf15.jpg" data-mid="102490354" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/31735b1b624a1fb775226f67abeedb7277ab6f3ace0836d2e43ce292febf2990/bookshelf15.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/e47cdb31d66c069351baa6a7077c4bbf14b741d2eb4436f0cf77eee876fcfd0d/bookshelf19.jpg" data-mid="102490358" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/e47cdb31d66c069351baa6a7077c4bbf14b741d2eb4436f0cf77eee876fcfd0d/bookshelf19.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/b1839137d7284d94c48a72527a14946546dc4ed678f4732a2c23540f6e432628/bookshelf7.jpg" data-mid="102490346" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/b1839137d7284d94c48a72527a14946546dc4ed678f4732a2c23540f6e432628/bookshelf7.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/8f01be1798abeaf2085482ce78021d419b9e8a68db4596389299cbf85775b62e/bookshelf16.jpg" data-mid="102490355" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/8f01be1798abeaf2085482ce78021d419b9e8a68db4596389299cbf85775b62e/bookshelf16.jpg" /> <img width="900" height="1200" width_o="900" height_o="1200" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/d4be5dc05f274f3c970f9d2770ecd093c526ce41c001983cb3bee5530d9d443a/bookshelf20.jpg" data-mid="102490359" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/900/i/d4be5dc05f274f3c970f9d2770ecd093c526ce41c001983cb3bee5530d9d443a/bookshelf20.jpg" /> https://inter-punct.pub/demolition Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:23:53 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/demolition DEMOLITION <img width="1730" height="2423" width_o="1730" height_o="2423" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/31ea04d0f529490b4cd7846938d899530634fa249c2b7b3ba719b86587f821b1/cover.png" data-mid="165764333" border="0" data-scale="41" 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src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/8724874da6bd0050d3a9556b0f32b66c2d264e826409a18e73cda4ac7b8ef5bc/RECONSTRUCTION-PUBLICATION34.png" /><img width="4800" height="1800" width_o="4800" height_o="1800" data-src="https://freight.cargo.site/t/original/i/e7acb484e0cfa3d667fcccc3d1c89ef080e941a9ff9aa9af4882ff5badcea818/RECONSTRUCTION-PUBLICATION35.png" data-mid="189687208" border="0" src="https://freight.cargo.site/w/1000/i/e7acb484e0cfa3d667fcccc3d1c89ef080e941a9ff9aa9af4882ff5badcea818/RECONSTRUCTION-PUBLICATION35.png" /> https://inter-punct.pub/Keisuke-Toyoda Tue, 24 Jan 2023 14:37:49 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/Keisuke-Toyoda Keisuke Toyoda Keisuke Toyoda’s NOIZ architects explores the intersections of technology, architecture, art, and fashion. Toyoda is also a professor at the University of Tokyo and came to CMU in Fall 2022 to lecture. His work with AI, smart cities, and the “common ground” encourages us to explore ways our physical and digital world forming new relationships, and what that means for the future of architects. Graana Khan&nbsp; A project I found of interest in particular was the 3D digital archive project, specifically because it was dealing with buildings being demolished. Thinking about your computational background, what does the physical action of demolishing mean today when we start to enter this world of digital preservation? Keisuke Toyoda&nbsp; Let’s say the definition of the word architecture or building is about the 3D structure, like columns and beams. But at the same time, through this practice of preserving the digital archive of the building, which is not physically existing anymore, the definition or meaning of an architectural building is much wider and expanded like the shared memory of whoever used that building or a local pride if it’s a symbol of your area. Now, with digital technology, we can subdivide the [architecture] and then extract a certain quality or improvement. We can manage it and then either preserve or provide it to the open platform so that the people can start playing with it, and change the scale or change the design, which wasn’t possible before. The demolition of the building doesn’t mean that we lose everything. Graana Khan You talked a little bit in your lecture about the tatami mats that you’re working with and it made me think about how Japan is well known for their craftsmanship. Do you feel in any way that entering this digital realm is demolishing, in a way, these practices that have thrived so much on the tangible for so long? Keisuke Toyoda We have [had] more and more opportunities to collaborate with the more traditional and conventional kind of skills and craftsmanship, so their weaknesses and our strengths, and our weaknesses and their strengths match very well. But it has to have a certain translation and some mindset [while] being fine tuned, but once that happens those tend to be a very, very good combination and open up the value. Let’s say the tatami mat as I mentioned. It has very local [roots] due to the physical limitation. The master has to go to the room and they have to guarantee by measuring [the room], but now with scanning, anybody in this room could [scan] and that could be coordinated with your skills. The architect doesn’t need to be aware of how to weave the Tamami mat, it could be some digital skill. Graana Khan So it’s a dialogue or dance between both the Craftsman and the people working in digital interfaces, rather than one taking over the sphere of the other? Keisuke Toyoda Right, you just need to know the skill of translation. The craftsman’s issue is not normally described in a digital language, but you must have an eye to withdraw it and analyze, and then translate it into a digital issue and what could be applied. That translation ability of the physical issue and digital issue is a new skill set that could be very well-trained in architecture school. Graana Khan You also presented your Thematic Pavilion and mentioned how it will be available to interact with digitally. So, in a way, it almost goes through its own demolition and rebuilding through that digital interaction. What was your main intention or goal by making it available digitally? Keisuke Toyoda I’m not really sure what’s going to be the end result, but we’re trying to make it happen just so we can experience and then discover through the process. We are trying to push the threshold of what’s possible in reality and then how much of that kind of combination would have an effect on the, let’s say, VR translation. So we don’t know the limit yet. But just by applying it, especially in such a foundation like the World Expo, the amount of people who use this is on a completely different level which might be a good opportunity to see the frustrations of it and what unexpected creation emerges out of it. Graana Khan It feels that architectural explorations through digital means have a lot more freedom than it would be if we were to build something physical, and have to consider all the environmental or social impacts that it has. Do you feel like doing your research and experimentation through digital means has opened up what architecture can do? Keisuke Toyoda I believe so. You know the architect used to be, and still is, responsible and then also privileged to be able to define every single detail of the final form. You have to actually design what the edge will be, and what the details will be. That’s the role and the beauty, and also the special skill of the architect. But at the same time, we provide powerful or valuable DNA to the market and let people edit it. That could be the role and power of an architect left as a new territory, so in that sense we don’t need to be the only one to give the final form. Actually, our value could lie in providing better tools to the people. The end result is left to the user, so [being] the architect doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re the giver of the final form. So, it’s a choice but we feel like we are training ourselves to get used to that new concept that we still feel awkward with. We’re not giving a final form and that might be a new value and open some kind of new possibility. Graana Khan Talking about some of your research and ideas of the common ground, one thing you were talking about was, for example, if you don’t define this table in front of us to a robot, it won’t exist to them. It made me think that it’s a little intimidating to see how people can become responsible for the erasure or creation of things in the physical world, whereas humans can’t ignore a table if it’s physically there in our world. So how are we to assume responsibility for what exists in the digital format? And how do we decide what doesn’t exist? Keisuke Toyoda What a philosophical question. It’s going to be defined by the economy from a business point of view. It takes some time and effort, and of course money too. So, for the time being it will be defined by the market. We just need to accept it because in the transition period, it requires extra energy, and we need corporate society to invest in it. So, it’s like a feasible and realistic kind of approach that we [try to] attract those kinds of people who want to make money to invest into this and make it happen as a transition. Once that’s happened and it becomes like air or water, then there might be some space for extra creation. So, for instance, a common ground that we must have are sensors in space, which is not very economical in the beginning, but by doing it, maybe the AI installed in a building can learn the more it happens. It’s a gradual process and I’m hoping that eventually it becomes a tool for everyone. Graana Khan On the topic of demolition and creating the future that we envision as architects, are there any other areas in your practice or interactions with architecture that you feel need to be demolished to be reinvented? We talked a little bit about the “starchitect” concept which is something my generation of architects is very interested in, as well as demolishing the idea that architecture is by an individual. So, what do you feel should be demolished as someone who has had years of experience in the practice? Keisuke Toyoda The architect, the job and the profession used to be enclosed or limited within the physical character and the form [of it]. That means everything has a bunch of different types of information. But we didn’t have technology to break it into pieces and extract the entity or any information by itself. That’s the demolition and the destruction. Recreation happened in the information layer, subdivided into the different points of view which can be extended out of the physical body. That could be happening on the Internet, it could be happening on the software. And then once it’s out, it can merge into some other entity which also used to be enclosed with the physical territory. Physical meaning that the object has physical means, such as within a [territory], so that information can be extracted. And this merges into something else, like I explained about the collaboration with the musician. With the digital format, we can translate between each other, which is the recreation of digital language. This seems key for the new generation. Graana Khan It almost feels like we’re assuming the role of the translator in some sense. And we can argue that we have been translating the needs of people into physical forms, but it’s interesting how the language continues to develop based on the media that we’re using. As an architect who does work heavily in the digital format, do you feel a sense of attachment to your creations? You talk about how while you might put out one idea for the thematic pavilion, it will take any form once it’s out there. That’s what happens when you make something accessible on a digital platform. Do you feel like your notions of ownership or approaches to projects have changed? Keisuke Toyoda Big time. The purpose and fun part of doing this by ourselves through the experiment of this concept, is approaching change. The goal of our interests is how are we going to change perspective and how are we going to be able to contribute to society. In terms of understanding society and the profession, every half a year I’m lecturing something and then they’re taking out previous lectures from a year ago, two years ago, and it looks so different. That point of view is very interesting. They come up with their own kind of standard methodology and they then become stuck in their own territory. It’s a good thing you can build up skill levels but at the same time you’re going to be stuck. The territory won’t change with this kind of point of view which allows you to continuously change, and that’s very refreshing and fun too. Graana Khan I feel when we talk about physical demolition it’s because the field currently is so attached to physical form, and it makes me think a lot about sustainability and the permanence of certain decisions in a certain time period. How does this affect or translate into the future social and economic conditions? Can the digital format become a more sustainable approach to architecture because it removes the physical aspect? Keisuke Toyoda It used to be that the function was tied with the physical existence. So, I used the example of taxis and Uber. Taxis used to be popular but the demand has gone down, but still, the physical taxis do not diminish. Pittsburgh has like 100 taxis. It can be too many or it could be too few. So it’s more economical. That type of thing, especially associated with physicality, one-toone doesn’t make enough money. You must get some equipment and software, which needs a certain investment. That’s the reality. But to collect that money back with that particular business, from my experience, loses money. But if the same system uses sensors that could work for the business, that could work for 3, 4, or 5 different kinds of entities and then start making money. So, by itself a business doesn’t collect as much money back, but the addition of an application uses one stone to kill five birds. That’s the kind of sense that the architect needs to have to contribute to society. Graana Khan Yeah, because coming up with the theme [of demolition] for this semester made me think about whether this concept of demolition will even be needed 50 years in the future. Will it rather just be iteration, because when it comes with physical things, it does require more of a larger scale intervention just because of the cost and the final sensibilities of a form, versus something in a digital format where it becomes more about quick iteration than if you were to propose something in a physical space. Keisuke Toyoda As we’ve been living throughout history, myself is always myself. There’s never been doubt about me being a different person. Now there could be some situations in this entity where I could be changed or shared between classes, by offering the use of myself to others. For example, you could be very good at fashion and have the time between classes to go into an app and give someone advice who is currently shopping at Saks 5th Avenue who needs help with their own fashion. They give you access to share your advice and the body becomes shared. If somebody in the hospital wants to be able to go to the class, you can offer your body by taking the same class in their place and discussing the course material with them. That might be the choice. An object is not withheld by physicality anymore, and that’s a positive shift. https://inter-punct.pub/Tommy-Yang Fri, 03 Jun 2022 18:56:14 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/Tommy-Yang Tommy Yang Tai Manheim Something we found interesting was the medium that your work invokes; not just drawings, but film as well. And it's not just about having a building as a final product, but analyzing the social context. What roles do you see for drawing vs film in architecture? Tommy Yang Yeah, I think both have different agencies in our practice. What’s most interesting to me is when the two become combined into what I call 2 ½ dimension drawings. It’s when you actually draw, but also context your own drawing through the act of animation. You can do that in a series of ways: you can make a drawing so thick that it becomes a model, or you can use augmented reality to actually animate a drawing, so you can contest your drawing and also view in different ways. That way you don’t fall into the trap of just doing a drawing, or just doing a film. Both have limits, right? The drawing allows us to view a frame for an extended period of time, while the film allows us to understand ephemeral aspects around the built environment that we either aren't able to draw, or become an ethical problem in deciding how to depict something ephemeral. An example would be sound; right now, you can’t really draw sound… smells… These are things that we aren’t able to draw, or we try to as designers but hit certain limits, while film actually captures these aspects of the city. Alana Wu Would you say that architects, and other designers, should be able to use as wide a range of mediums as possible? Tommy Yang Exactly. Being well rounded in mediums, in these tool sets, allows us to actually understand the world around us much more, whether you’re an artist, designer, or architect. Having more tool sets at the tip of your fingers allows you to take in other aspects of the world around you. Your set of tools limits your ability to practice as an artist or architect. And that's usually the biggest problem, right? It's not that we're not thinking about others; it's because our tool sets segregate us from thinking about others, either being animals and vegetation, or people and race. Many of these mediums have limits, but when you have an array of them and hack into these mediums, you have the ability to challenge that limited thinking. Tai Manheim Why do you think [in architecture] that drawings are so dominant over other mediums like film, collage, etc? Alana Or do you think that's changing now? Tommy Yang I think it's definitely changing because of the world that we’re living in, especially with the pandemic. We never thought of how the pandemic would influence us, as a discipline and a practice. But I think we tend to fetishize the act of drawing, which was probably nurtured through a Western colonial perspective around drawing… which also means that the way we think about drawing are also within this Western canon. For example, my studio tends to work a lot in the oblique or axon drawing. But within the Western canon, that’s what’s used to draw machines. If you decolonize that perspective, you see that indigenous people have always used the axon and oblique to draw relationships. Oblique and axon drawings were never really about the machine; they were about how people connected with each other in building and experiencing the world. When we look at buildings, we tend to look at the elevation or perspective. But under the vise of the discipline, which was nurtured during the early 1400s, a lot of our practice became material driven, aesthetic driven architectural design, which led to the monster that we have today, which is around modernism. I think we tend to love our drawings so much, and so it's really hard to break out, but I think it's definitely shifting because of the world we have to live in today. Alana I noticed you used the word decolonize; what role do you think architecture has played or is still playing in settler colonialism? Tommy Yang It’s&nbsp; hard to think about an architectural practice that decolonizes because we are very much a product of culture. And like many humans, we like to claim territory. Because architecture in the making of the city is about building when you claim territory, it’s hard to say if we will ever reach the point of architecture with a notion of decolonization. If we acknowledge that, we can begin to have conversations around, whose agency are we designing for? What aspects of control are we allowing them to take over? How do we humble our own profession and what contracts are we giving people to design for them or with them? I think there's a long way to go and I don't think there's ever an answer, since we're humans and as humans, we tend to claim territory. Whether it’s people who are Asian, Western, Alaskan… We like to set up borders because we want to feel safe. And then as we populate and grow, we need more space, so there's always going to be that contestation in spatial practices. How do you negotiate that? The only way that I can think of now is to&nbsp; have a much more engaged practice, where you think about co- authorship between multiple identities. But there's always going to be someone who’ll have a lot more agency. And as we’re humans, if we’re designing for non-humans, there will always be that notion. Tai Manheim A great thing about the films is that we hear from people living there, which isn’t commonly done in architecture. Especially with the bastard architecture, where people build temporary structures in their own environments. What could architects learn from these people by going to these areas and actually talking to people, rather than thinking that they know everything? Tommy Yang What we can learn from bad architecture isn’t the construction technique itself, but around how physical infrastructures are a social agreement between people, and that is the key to actually understanding the knowledge behind these construction techniques. They also understand that public space is temporary, so they don't claim public space; they set up in a public space for the time being, then move or shift. To me, that’s the key. Designers sometimes fetishize these things or design for them, which usually fails drastically, because they’re social agreements between people. It’s anthropological and ethnographic. When you begin to understand that type of social agreement, you can acknowledge it by allowing space for others to agree to take over a certain amount of time in your building design or urban planing. That's why you see a lot of them in certain areas in New York, Los Angeles, and even here in Pittsburgh, which is much more controlled. For example, the night markets, where vendors create temporary installations to vend, make, or celebrate… and then they pack up and leave. It’s temporal and becomes a ritual of the people, rather than being static, top-down, and controlled. Alana Wu&nbsp; Because that happens in public space, what role does thinking of space as public vs private play in architecture? Tommy Yang&nbsp; I don't think there's a good form of public space anymore, but it occurs in the banal things of the city, like the sidewalk. No one has the ability to claim sidewalks; they’re this kind weird, interstitial space between cars and our building fronts. Is it the building fronts or the cars that own the sidewalk? Jane Jacobs talked a lot about the sidewalk; the sidewalk is the most democratic space of the city, where strangers mitigate with each other. We trust strangers to not stab us on sidewalks, therefore we use and hang out on sidewalks… again, it’s a social agreement that we can maintain as strangers and come together to use it as a passageway, to vend, have green parts, etc. What's so scary around the pandemic was when our sidewalk spaces became a scary zone where people actually did that, so then it showed up in our media. It begins to contest our notions around the public. But because it is the public, it allows for people to get pushed and shoved. Leaving this to the public, not having a top-down surveilled public, means that there can be accidents or villains. That's the commons. The Commons isn't this pretty place where we hold hands; the Commons is where multiple identities can actually come together, good and bad. It's always this mitigation between strangers; to trust a stranger is the most public thing you can do in the city. Tai Manheim&nbsp; As architects, we often try to control everything, such as the sidewalk. How do we need to change as a profession and discipline to allow for the freedom of the commons and for people to use the streetscape? Is it even an architectural problem, or is it a political problem? How much agency do architects&nbsp; have in making these spaces? Tommy Yang&nbsp; If we're thinking about controlling the things that will happen, architects don't have that agency. But we do have the agency of designing how our building meets the ground; we create sites of vision towards public spaces like sidewalks. There’s a sense of control, but also a notion around community, since the interiors can bleed out to the exterior. When you don't treat the sidewalk or streetscape as part of the ecosystem of your building, you create interstitial spaces that are not nurtured by the community, so they become leftover spaces that can become problematic, or opportunistic spaces for people to hang out and linger in. The problem with giving the architect or client too much agency is the lack of public space or the inability to linger on the street or sidewalk. Being unable to linger in front of certain buildings, since you’ll get kicked out or arrested, has made our democratic spaces into private spaces for big developments It’s always a kind of mix and match. Giving the people who own or live in the building the ability to see out gives them the control to say “the sidewalk is part of our building”. But to also leave enough space so people can actually hang out on a sidewalk is key, so these issues depend on policy. A lot of policy makers, activists and grassroot leaders should become part of our design conversation when talking about rethinking urban design, so we can think about the hidden infrastructure or problems that communities might be facing that we tend not to think about. Because making huge public spaces, right? Grabbed commons are never the answer. You’ll have huge public spaces with trees, bikes, all of that… but it still fails the community because it's not an agreed, shared space between people. Alana Wu &nbsp; How much do architects interact and collaborate with urban planners or city government? Tommy Yang &nbsp; It depends on your practice. I know great architects who work with policy or have planners who look at policy inside of your firm, so they consult with each other. There are also architects who just say, “All I do is residential. I just make buildings and work on interiors.” There's a huge array across the board, but to the expense of my own bias, I feel like there’s not enough of engaging others in our conversation. Tai Manheim&nbsp; One thing I loved about your lecture is that you focused on your family and background. Usually lectures just focus on their work, but family and where you’re from is so important to your work. Could you expand on that? Also, how could architects and architecture students bring their background into their work more? Tommy Yang&nbsp; I tend to focus on my family or familial history in my own lectures because I'm trying to acknowledge my own biases, and to make myself vulnerable in that I think a certain way because of this, and I don't expect everyone to understand this. Not everyone has the same history or story, but to be able to acknowledge your own story inside of your own practice is key, because then people who have familiar stories can begin to relate or bridge. For me, the most important aspect, especially in teaching, is that you create that safe space for students with similar stories to bridge that type of network with you, and use that to become the best Rem Koolhaas in 20 years, or to shift their own practice and things the way they want to do it because of their own history. To be able to acknowledge that is powerful, especially as a student in taking ownership of your story and using it as a platform to create things. That way, you don't strip yourself down to become the perfect architect who wears black all the time. You allow yourself to grow into the professional that you're meant to be, which makes you a more resilient designer in the face of calamities. You’re not just another robot of 100 designers who does the same thing, who wears the same thing and who only knows how to draft. You want to become a designer with an array of tool sets to deal with the large overarching urban problems we're facing today. You need to actually own the tool sets and don’t become a slave of the tool sets. Alana Wu&nbsp; What if it's the reverse scenario, where you design for a community that has a completely different background from yourself. Should you try to limit how much personal identity goes into that work? Tommy Yang&nbsp; Exactly. If you begin to acknowledge and understand your own story and biases, you can begin to be careful. Around people who have different stories, you can actually listen in and hear their stories, you can actually look and see how they live. Then you begin to correct your biases, to build a relationship. You don’t want to go in not knowing your own biases, and then intervene in ways that interrupt or destroy communities. In many cases, designers go in with great intentions, either being sustainability or social justice. But we need to first correct our own biases, since social justice means different things for populations in China or Europe, than in America. America, Europe, Africa don’t think about race the same way. When you begin to understand how we’re embedded in certain ways of thinking and biases, then you can begin to unpack them through relationship building, trust building, community engagement, and actually hearing the real story from that community. You need long term conversations and dialogue with communities. Our design processes might have to change from this capital driven design meant to get a project done into longer spans of relationship building where designers have to become stewards of community before proposing large scale design. Tai Manheim &nbsp; A lot of architecture studios try to engage the community, but are there for one semester and then leave. There have been issues with CMU, for example, with communities where they tried to do a well-intentioned studio, but after they take the community’s input and time, they just leave and the community gets nothing. How can we change that relationship in both the profession, and our studios? Is there a way to create a sustained relationship between the school and communities? Tommy Yang&nbsp; It's different for each professor, but I think ethical research is a good way to talk about that type of relationship, along with understanding the contract that you're giving communities. If you're doing community engagement,&nbsp; you might be looking at how you do an ethical IRB so you can be a steward of the community that you're engaging with, who knows what you're doing and what they can expect out of you. When you’re holding studios and reviews, giving the space on campus for those stewards to come into the campus, and be one of the reviewers. You're giving the stewards the agency to critique the work that you're doing, so the voice of the community can begin to contest the way we draw, or sections, the materials we want to use, and just humble our methods of design. You have to actually&nbsp; go talk with community members, gather their stories, and then regurgitate their stories through the act of design. And then ask, “is this what you were talking about?” You need to listen to critiques or advice from community members to correct your own design. Alana Wu&nbsp; Because it takes a lot of time for that to happen, do you think it'd be best if architects only design for communities that they either came from or are similar to where they came from? Tommy Yang&nbsp; I think it's not the question of designing for a community that you come from, but your skill sets in engagement, relationships building, and trust building. You should also be having a diverse set of our designers, who have different backgrounds, on your team. I was talking to a colleague from Wisconsin, and she said “whenever I go and visit and give public talks, all these Asian students flock and ask me all these questions” because there's a lack of Asian faculty at that university. If you're not giving space for Asian faculty or designers, or black faculty or designers, then you won’t have that type&nbsp; of voice inside of your school and you’ll continue to do the things you do, without ever contesting due to the lack of another voice as part of your team. Collaborative work projects in school are great because then you contest with your peers, get angry at each other, yell at each other, then you begin to understand that your way of thinking is not the only way of thinking. The fun part is when you can agree to disagree, then use that disagreement to nurture architecture, product design, art, performances, etc. Tai Manheim&nbsp; Could you talk more about your studio and how it thinks about engaging with the community or student identities, etc? Tommy Yang&nbsp; My studio isn’t focusing on community engagement. It was against my ethics, since I don’t know if I'm only staying for the year. What I'm focusing on is learning to see and hear through field work, from the outside in and the inside out. My students are all doing individual projects so they can begin to see their biases through the act of drawings. Sometimes you become lazy, and you end up not drawing something, but you have to question why don't you draw certain things? Why do you want to draw other things? Why do you become blind to certain things inside of the city when you're doing field work? By learning about your own way of thinking and looking at the city, you can begin to contest the conventional ways of architectural thinking and make corrections to your biases. I had a conversation about sidewalks, like, why don't you draw your sidewalk? There are people sitting on the sidewalk, there's someone playing the trombone on the sidewalk, but you’re erasing them from reality when you say, “I'm not going to draw you” or “I'm not going to show you in my video.” But you can help that by using a wide series of tool sets. Alana Wu &nbsp; As fields, how often do design and architecture interact when it comes to education? Tommy Yang &nbsp; I don't know about here at CMU, but when it comes to discourse, public interest or community engaged design, across the nation, or even globally, there has been a kind of seminal knowledge of thinkers who actually comes together. And interestingly, like, I've been finding it so awkward and weird, where like, like, oh, like, your professor was my professor like, 10 years ago, to do the same thing. And, you know, and like, you know, in that person's like, currently in Taiwan, right, like, it's, like, awkward, but then it's like, oh, that's so cool. Because then you're like that person, the person I'm talking about is like, doing like, product design and doing like the the hawkers. So and stuff, whereas I'm much more of an archetype. I don’t think cross disciplinary interaction on multiple levels happens between design and architecture at institutions because we’re limited by the tool sets we have and our ability to communicate. There's still work to do, but I think there's much more multidisciplinary thinking than when I was in school that also pushes the boundaries of the creative realm. It happens because students want it now. For example, why are we still designing bathrooms for men and women, why don’t we have inclusive bathrooms? It’s always been taught in architecture school that you need this square feet for men and this square feet for women, but students are realizing that we actually have a critical problem we’re not addressing and ask if, “can we do this?” Which pushes the faculty or the designer to rethink some of the things they were embedded in. The notion of inclusive bathrooms never showed up in the canon until like 2012. That was when my instructors realized they were segregating people using bathrooms and the use of bathrooms is part of the right to a city; you shouldn’t have to look this way to use the bathroom. Students are hungry to push for these types of conversations, pushing their instructors to rethink the way they make things. Rethinking our own processes is key. Alana Wu &nbsp; Does this process just take a long time, as each new generation comes in and challenges the past generation? Tommy Yang &nbsp; Yes. Because we are humans, the way we think is always going to shift. During the Civil Rights Movement, everyone just thought they were angry colored people, angry women, angry queer folks on the streets. But when we look at it many years later, we think, “yeah, that needed to happen for sure.” With time, thinking is always going to shift, and because we're bad people, there will always be someone we're leaving out of the conversation. We have to accept that and then correct those mistakes. We need to think about cross dialogue and try to figure out who we're leaving out for the conversation. That goes back to accepting and understanding our own stories, and the underpinnings of what we don't know. For me, I can talk about the Civil Rights Movement from a queer and Asian perspective, but I can never talk about it through a black perspective. By understanding what you don’t know, you become less susceptible to erasing someone else's story. Tai Manheim&nbsp; In school, it’s not just teachers teaching students, it’s students teaching the teacher as well. What do you think you’ve learned from your students this semester, or in past semesters? Has your way of teaching changed from when you first started, based on student feedback? Tommy Yang I learn more from my students than I ever teach my students. There are a lot of things they’re going through that I’ve never gone through, like starting school during a pandemic. I learn from their ways of learning, and their underpinnings and stories. I’ve had to correct myself many, many, many times, throughout the semester. I'm a queer Asian man who has a very biased way of thinking, especially around engagement and race. Sometimes it becomes a little bit dangerous, because some students just want to be a great designer, and that should be okay. I constantly have to correct myself; not everyone can become a community engaged architect who uses architecture for activism. We can’t all be that. We need a well rounded ecosystem of architects; some Bjarke Ingels and some Rem Koolhaas, and then we need some activist architects. That variety allows us to grow and contest with each other. If suddenly all architects become activists, you’re not going to be able to push certain things in the making of the city. We need breadth. If your student wants to become the best architect ever, how do you reframe your own ways of teaching and looking at the world to nurture this new architect who’s going to become the best builder of a city, rather than stripping another student to think the way I think. It’s good that they also challenge my methods, which can become outdated; the use of film has been done since the 1960s. That's why I've recently moved into animation. How come animation artists can impact people so much and architects not so much? How come we watch Studio Ghibli movies and they’re embedded inside of our souls… and go to the studio and make a building that doesn’t do anything besides sit in our portfolio. That's why this semester we're focusing on the accessible image, like animation or comics and rethinking how we make our cities. I’m working with a wide array of students with diverse backgrounds and trying to teach them how to look, because many students here are international, and it’s difficult to engage in a foreign landscape. I'm constantly grappling with how to help them understand why cities are the way they are. Tai Manheim&nbsp; Do you feel that students in your second year studio are resisting or having to adjust to the process of just seeing and being in a place? Most scientific studios are just going in to take measurements and photos, but you're emphasizing something beyond that. Do you feel like your students were able to just immediately embrace that, or was there an adjustment period? Tommy Yang They’re still adjusting. There’s been a lot of, “how does this relate to architecture, again? Am I just becoming another anthropologist?” I have to sit down and talk with them about why it’s important, how most of the time buildings are used differently than the function we designed them for, how to understand urban patterns, and how those can become inspirations in urban design; actually going into the neighborhood and seeing problems, but also the opportunities. For many designers, we need a problem to solve, so we map to see problems. We don't map to see the great things that are happening, even if they’re in small, interstitial spaces. By mapping the good things happening in the neighborhood, you bring in nuances as you think about architecture. For example, you can think about how communities have been resilient for a very long time, even in the face of the pandemic, in the face of racism and then draw from that. This creates a much more integrative but transformative and radical architecture. It’s been a process of asking questions for the student, which is good because you have to question these things before you can begin to understand them. If you don’t question, you'll never find an answer, and you won’t have any capacity to actually think and imagine new things. https://inter-punct.pub/Rebecca-Gates Fri, 28 Jan 2022 23:01:00 +0000 inter·punct https://inter-punct.pub/Rebecca-Gates Rebecca Gates Robert Rice Hi Rebecca! We went through and we looked at some of your works and talks you gave. In your work as an artist, you talked a lot about the human voice listening space. So how do you think we can use the voice as a tool? What do you think architects have to learn from that? How can architects use the human voice as a tool to create? Rebecca Gates That is a great question. One of the things that I like about voice is that it can take so many forms: not only in terms of forms of the human voice, but in terms of like a storytelling voice, or a voice of an instrument……I always tend to scale out when answering this kind of question. However, one of the things that's interesting and I don't know about (because I’m not an architect) is considering users of voices, just like clients for architects.&nbsp; What would the user be like? If it is voice: is it a collective voice, or if it is a single voice? It’s a different input into a space that would then have to be addressed in a design. I do also think that there are ways that just sound, in general, is not considered, unless it's a sound-specific place like a theater or a hospital. And even in hospitals, it's not often considered: How about starting with, sound? I like the idea that the voice can have a real perspective, whether it's aesthetic or whether it's content. Robert Rice In the Marfa series, you were describing very particular spaces using soundscapes as a tool. One of them was a hair salon where people could hear all these ladies gasping… Rebecca Gates There's that I would listen to that sound piece. There wasn't a hair salo piece. But one of the things that I liked doing as someone who is a sound space maker(I need a better name for what I do) is to think about just the architecture for listening. I was related to what you just said that was in the Marfa show there's an artist named Inigo Mangani Laval, and he did a video piece of a bullet slowed down and he gave us the audio. When it slowed down, it sounds a lot like what you just heard a bit ago was raining, that kind of quality to it. Where we installed it was out in a county park, using a system of speakers that were old and that were just out there for like square dancing and like counting city dances. Thus, you had to be in one spot to actually hear the piece, but we didn't tell anyone where that spot was. So people would just go out there. Sometimes if someone had a sonic learner, they'd look up and be like, “Oh, there are four speakers”, “Oh, well, they're pointing here like”, “I should stand here” or “maybe I'll go to the bandshell and see if I can get some reflected sound” and people would come back and be like: “I couldn't hear the piece but I just sat there and listened to the Go-Karts forever. it was so cool” or “there were these birds…” People come back to the gallery with these descriptions of the piece that they love that had nothing to do with the actual sound and I really loved that. Every once in a while someone will be like: “I was just walking; it was really quiet and then I heard this crazy sound” because they have walked to the sweet spot where it was and then they like kind of just like found their way into it. So I personally love that where it's just people start filling in and just listening. Yeah, but there's also one that we did was Darla Robledo, where we just had napkins, So it’s basically to experience the peace you had to go to a bar and just those were the cocktail napkins...So that was, that was like the hair salon. Robert Rice&nbsp; That's cool. Our second question was, from listening to your lecture in going to the workshop just now, we know you believe strongly in the ability of sound as a tool to do lots of different things. Where do you think the limits of sound as a tool lie? Because you know, every tool has limits. Rebecca Gates&nbsp; That's also a great question. We live in, you know, a multiverse. Even in terms of doing sound art, part of one of the things is like Sound is unseen; you need a way to translate it. So that's something that actually in terms of limits that I come up against that challenge. I don't like headphones or how we listen to sound a lot. I think that sound should be it's great to hear it in your bones. So there’s a lot of different ways that could translate sound as material into other viewers. There's a lot of answers to that question already, but I still feel like it gets stuck at that point a lot. I don't know if it's just because it's a newer medium, or if it's because of the medium itself. But I think that it's interesting to suddenly start going from this thing that I feel like is very expansive and responsive and then have it suddenly hit this wall where it's limited. That's something that I think about a lot. And I haven't really turned it's interesting to hear the question because, well, what would that mean for an architect? What other elements of design? What would that mean for a painter like do they get a certain point where they're like “Oh, I wish the canvas was 3D”? Robert Rice It's absolutely true. Sometimes we hit a wall and drawing doesn't do it anymore. We have to switch to a model or something else or vice versa. Rebecca Gates Yeah. So I think I should always tell people to jump through different paradigms like: “Oh I should think about it that way too!” I'm actually really trying to do a lot more material studies for myself, just to have to find some of that vocabulary that we're using sounds and material and then also, perhaps some different solutions for how to share an experience that isn't just like headphones or speakers or, you know, a spatial way. Yanan Zhou So my question is, what do you think of the difference between visual art and sound art? Because we have lines, structures, and hues to contribute to a design, but how does sound art contribute to that? Rebecca Gates That's a great question too, thank you. It's like sound study is a new, pretty new discipline, like 100 years old. So I think that's still being developed; there's a lot of vocabulary are still being developed. And even like, what conversation I was having with a student is thinking about how to use sound as a texture and not bring it into a narrative structure. As someone who isn't a visual artist a couple of ideas even come to mind if we were trying to answer that question with visuals. That's one reason it's really fascinating is that there's a lot it's become as a discipline a lot more robust over the last 10 years. Especially at this really nice place where those questions are going to start to be answered more readily. I think sound really translates scale really well. In this way, you can go from very intimate to bombastic if you think about the different environments that it lives in. I think that that nimbleness is super interesting, and I haven't really ever tried to correlate that with buildings’ scale for sure, but with actual visual arts. Yanan Zhou&nbsp; I think it's just like what we did in the workshop when I was standing in the middle of the hallway like all of the sounds echoed so the sounds are all blurring. I can't hear you very clearly. So I think maybe like there's some connection between the visualization of sound and how it speaks of the volume of the hallway to me. it's really interesting. Rebecca Gates I love that. And I think you could draw that. Yanan Zhou I think it's very inspiring. Thank you for speaking of that point. Rebecca Gates Cool. There's actually a file on my computer that's just musical score, or just graphic scores, which is different because that's usually coming from more of a compositional element as opposed to like a descriptive visual of something which is super interesting. Robert Rice Cool. That's all the questions we had. Thank you. Rebecca Gates Those are some good ones. Thank you.